In the last one week, 3M is seeing a lot of chest thumping on the Maharashtra-Karnataka border dispute from politicians and bloggers in these two states… but sadly with very little analysis or facts!
So let us try to understand how this mess was created in the first place. In 1921, Indian National Congress passed a resolution for linguistic states as the geographical limits of provinces in British India were made ‘without any logic’. Belgaum was then part of Bombay Presidency, the most prosperous province at that time, which covered parts of today’s Sindh, Gujarat, Western Maharashtra and Northwestern Karnataka. In 1948, Belgaum City Council (BCC) passed a resolution that it wanted to be a part of the proposed Marathi speaking state. Later in 1953, Fazil Ali Commission was appointed by Pandit Nehru to decide on the linguistic states which formed the basis for the States Reorganisation Act 1956. The commission’s methodology was based on the principle that a district should be taken as a unit to decide which linguistic state should it be included and not taluka or village. Only if a taluka within a district had 70% people speaking other language, it would be transferred to the neighbouring state. This flawed methodology is the foundation of the current Maharashtra-Karnataka border dispute… popularly referred to as “Belgaum Border Dispute”. Surprisingly, this ‘formula’ was overruled by the commission itself in all cases expect Belgaum!
In 3 areas in India, “border disputes” became political movements where local people created
'seperatist' parties and won elections on the issue… Bhensdehi & Saunsai in Madhya Pradesh wanted to merge with Maharashtra, Kasargod area in Kerala wanted to merge with Karnataka and the Marathi speaking areas of Karnataka wanted to be a part of Maharashtra. The first two political movements died down in course of time. But Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti (MES) had put up a brave and politically successful fight for 50 years till it became a victim of factionalism in 2005. At its peak it was able to send 9 MLAs to the Karnataka Assembly… currently the tally is zero!
In 1966 on insistence of Maharashtra Government, the Indian Government appointed one-man Commission under the Chief Justice Meherchand Mahajan to resolve the issue. The Mahajan Commission’s scope was also included the Karnataka-Kerala border dispute. Sadly the commission decided to use different yardsticks for the two disputes. The report said that Kasargod area should be given to Karnataka as ‘there were more Kannada students (not speakers!) than Malayalam students’. It had also considered the win of a Kannada candidate in Kasaragod as a reason for merger with Karnataka. However, in case of Belgaum, it didn't take into account, the number of Marathi-medium schools and their students, or the winning streak of MES in elections. Maharashtra Government further argued that 89% of octroi paid in Belgaum was for goods from Maharashtra indicating that economic links of the city were with Maharashtra instead of Karnataka. Even though the 1961 census showed that Belgaum city and surrounding areas had Marathi majority, the commission insisted Belgaum will not be handed over to Maharashtra because it was a ‘cosmopolitan city’. 3M fails to understand why a ‘cosmopolitan city’ should be given to Karnataka when Kannadiga population half that of Marathis!
Maharashtra laid claim to over 800 villages in Karnataka which lay in the Bidar, Belgaum and North Kanara districts and was ready to handover 250 odd villages which had Kannada majority. In sum, Karnataka was to lose 4000 sq kms of land (same size as Mumbai Metropolitan Region). The commission ensured that Karnataka does not lose any land in the deal. Obviously, Maharashtra and Kerala Governments rejected the report… while Karnataka government insisted that the report be implemented or status quo be maintained.
At various points of time, Belgaum, Nipani & Khanapur Municipalities and almost all affected Gram Panchyats and Taluka Panchayats have passed resolutions for merger with Maharashtra. In 2005, when BCC passed a resolution requesting the Indian and Karnataka Governments on transfer the city to Maharashtra, Karnataka Government decided to dissolve the council to quell the protest. To ensure Kannadiga domination on the city, the Karnataka Government decided to conduct the winter session of the Karnataka Assembly in Belgaum. This was considered as ‘rubbing salt into wounds’ by the Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti, who decided to mobilise protest through Maha-melava (Grand Gathering) by inviting prominent Marathi politicians in January 2008. R R Patil’s (the then Dy CM of Maharashtra) speech on this occasion was strongly condemned in the ongoing assembly session. This year’s Maha-melava was banned by the Karnataka Government leading to large scale violence in different parts of Maharashtra and Karnataka. To further ‘kannadise’ the city, the government plans to rename it ‘Belgavi’ and lay the foundation stone of ‘Suvarna Soudha’ – a building to house the winter assembly session. During the current delimitation process, care has been taken to ensure Marathi votes are divided. The administration has also ensured that no Marathi speaking official is appointed in the border areas in any central or state government agencies to avoid any bias towards Marathi speaking population. State sponsored Marathi schools are denied Marathi teachers and are provide Kannada teachers instead. During H D Devegowda’s regime some Kannadiga radicals (Kannada Cheluvarigara Sangha) had even suggested that the government should set up industries in Belgaum area so that Kanndigas can be migrated there to alter the demographics… almost sounds like Chinese Government policy on Tibet!
Hutatma Chowk in Mumbai was raised in memory of 105 people who laid down their lives for
a ‘Samyukta Maharashtra’… of which 5 were from the disputed Belgaum region! Over the last 6 decades, the Belgaum border dispute has claimed many lives – Marathi as well as Kannadiga. Vijay More, the Belgaum mayor, was beaten up by Karnataka Raksha Vedike mob giving him a fractured arm in 2005!
In 2005, Maharashtra Government decided to reopen the issue through negotiation but was cold shouldered by the Karnataka Government. So in March 2006, Maharashtra Government filed a petition in Supreme Court for resolution of the problem. According to Article 3 of Indian Constitution, if the disputed territory has to be handed over to Maharashtra, the Karnataka Assembly will have to pass such a resolution… which is next to impossible! Probably politicians are not really interested in solving the dispute as it gives them an excuse to do some rabble rousing… but how long can both the states continue to bleed?
Ideally, a fair commission should be instituted to ensure that the border dispute is resolved at the earliest and can even include a referendum in the disputed area to have a full and final settlement between the ‘warring states’!
So let us try to understand how this mess was created in the first place. In 1921, Indian National Congress passed a resolution for linguistic states as the geographical limits of provinces in British India were made ‘without any logic’. Belgaum was then part of Bombay Presidency, the most prosperous province at that time, which covered parts of today’s Sindh, Gujarat, Western Maharashtra and Northwestern Karnataka. In 1948, Belgaum City Council (BCC) passed a resolution that it wanted to be a part of the proposed Marathi speaking state. Later in 1953, Fazil Ali Commission was appointed by Pandit Nehru to decide on the linguistic states which formed the basis for the States Reorganisation Act 1956. The commission’s methodology was based on the principle that a district should be taken as a unit to decide which linguistic state should it be included and not taluka or village. Only if a taluka within a district had 70% people speaking other language, it would be transferred to the neighbouring state. This flawed methodology is the foundation of the current Maharashtra-Karnataka border dispute… popularly referred to as “Belgaum Border Dispute”. Surprisingly, this ‘formula’ was overruled by the commission itself in all cases expect Belgaum!In 3 areas in India, “border disputes” became political movements where local people created
'seperatist' parties and won elections on the issue… Bhensdehi & Saunsai in Madhya Pradesh wanted to merge with Maharashtra, Kasargod area in Kerala wanted to merge with Karnataka and the Marathi speaking areas of Karnataka wanted to be a part of Maharashtra. The first two political movements died down in course of time. But Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti (MES) had put up a brave and politically successful fight for 50 years till it became a victim of factionalism in 2005. At its peak it was able to send 9 MLAs to the Karnataka Assembly… currently the tally is zero!In 1966 on insistence of Maharashtra Government, the Indian Government appointed one-man Commission under the Chief Justice Meherchand Mahajan to resolve the issue. The Mahajan Commission’s scope was also included the Karnataka-Kerala border dispute. Sadly the commission decided to use different yardsticks for the two disputes. The report said that Kasargod area should be given to Karnataka as ‘there were more Kannada students (not speakers!) than Malayalam students’. It had also considered the win of a Kannada candidate in Kasaragod as a reason for merger with Karnataka. However, in case of Belgaum, it didn't take into account, the number of Marathi-medium schools and their students, or the winning streak of MES in elections. Maharashtra Government further argued that 89% of octroi paid in Belgaum was for goods from Maharashtra indicating that economic links of the city were with Maharashtra instead of Karnataka. Even though the 1961 census showed that Belgaum city and surrounding areas had Marathi majority, the commission insisted Belgaum will not be handed over to Maharashtra because it was a ‘cosmopolitan city’. 3M fails to understand why a ‘cosmopolitan city’ should be given to Karnataka when Kannadiga population half that of Marathis!
Maharashtra laid claim to over 800 villages in Karnataka which lay in the Bidar, Belgaum and North Kanara districts and was ready to handover 250 odd villages which had Kannada majority. In sum, Karnataka was to lose 4000 sq kms of land (same size as Mumbai Metropolitan Region). The commission ensured that Karnataka does not lose any land in the deal. Obviously, Maharashtra and Kerala Governments rejected the report… while Karnataka government insisted that the report be implemented or status quo be maintained.At various points of time, Belgaum, Nipani & Khanapur Municipalities and almost all affected Gram Panchyats and Taluka Panchayats have passed resolutions for merger with Maharashtra. In 2005, when BCC passed a resolution requesting the Indian and Karnataka Governments on transfer the city to Maharashtra, Karnataka Government decided to dissolve the council to quell the protest. To ensure Kannadiga domination on the city, the Karnataka Government decided to conduct the winter session of the Karnataka Assembly in Belgaum. This was considered as ‘rubbing salt into wounds’ by the Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti, who decided to mobilise protest through Maha-melava (Grand Gathering) by inviting prominent Marathi politicians in January 2008. R R Patil’s (the then Dy CM of Maharashtra) speech on this occasion was strongly condemned in the ongoing assembly session. This year’s Maha-melava was banned by the Karnataka Government leading to large scale violence in different parts of Maharashtra and Karnataka. To further ‘kannadise’ the city, the government plans to rename it ‘Belgavi’ and lay the foundation stone of ‘Suvarna Soudha’ – a building to house the winter assembly session. During the current delimitation process, care has been taken to ensure Marathi votes are divided. The administration has also ensured that no Marathi speaking official is appointed in the border areas in any central or state government agencies to avoid any bias towards Marathi speaking population. State sponsored Marathi schools are denied Marathi teachers and are provide Kannada teachers instead. During H D Devegowda’s regime some Kannadiga radicals (Kannada Cheluvarigara Sangha) had even suggested that the government should set up industries in Belgaum area so that Kanndigas can be migrated there to alter the demographics… almost sounds like Chinese Government policy on Tibet!
Hutatma Chowk in Mumbai was raised in memory of 105 people who laid down their lives for
a ‘Samyukta Maharashtra’… of which 5 were from the disputed Belgaum region! Over the last 6 decades, the Belgaum border dispute has claimed many lives – Marathi as well as Kannadiga. Vijay More, the Belgaum mayor, was beaten up by Karnataka Raksha Vedike mob giving him a fractured arm in 2005!In 2005, Maharashtra Government decided to reopen the issue through negotiation but was cold shouldered by the Karnataka Government. So in March 2006, Maharashtra Government filed a petition in Supreme Court for resolution of the problem. According to Article 3 of Indian Constitution, if the disputed territory has to be handed over to Maharashtra, the Karnataka Assembly will have to pass such a resolution… which is next to impossible! Probably politicians are not really interested in solving the dispute as it gives them an excuse to do some rabble rousing… but how long can both the states continue to bleed?
Ideally, a fair commission should be instituted to ensure that the border dispute is resolved at the earliest and can even include a referendum in the disputed area to have a full and final settlement between the ‘warring states’!
.
3M Trivia -
1) In the last 75 years not a single Kannadiga has been able to become a mayor in the Belgaum City Council... This shows that Kannadigas have a weak case on Belgaum!
2) In 1961, when Yeshwantrao Chavan (the then CM of Maharashtra) offered to 'hand over' the Kannada dominated villages in return of Belgaum, the village panchayats protested that they were not keen on being transferred to Karnataka!
.
3M recommends all marathi readers to read this Tarun Bharat Report which explains the dispute in great detail.
97 comments:
Thanks for putting all the aspects in easy to understand form. The map was an eye opener. Great piece of work!
Very nice post. Many facts were unknown to me and the map was excellent. Pl continue coverage of belgaum dispute.
3M,
So many facts are misleading here.
When Mahajan commision was formed, both states have agreed to go by it's directive. Mahajan, ( a maratha ) gave the verdict that Belgaum's land record shows 70% of the land belongs to Kannadigas though the marathi population in the city limits was 60% and kannadigas 40% during 1960s. How come Kannadigas owned so much of land ?? Did Marathis gift them the land?? Obviously no, It was Kannadigas who were staying there since centuries.
If you are not aware of the history, let me tell you. 17-18th century, when Tippu sultan was fighting against british, british were helped by peshves of maharashtra to defeat Tippu and british gave vast areas of north karnataka to peshves of maharashtra to rule and administer, thus making a large scale maratha migration to these areas for centuries and this is the reason marathi speaking population rose in belgaum and other bordering areas, and that's the precise reason why the land record of belgaum showed kannadiga majority owning them.
Not just this, til date, the solaphur, akkalakot, jat, areas have large kannada speaking villages, towns. One of the taluk in this area is called kannada. Narayan Srinivas Rajapurohit, one of the famour historian of maharashtra has openly told that studying maharashtra's history, without the knowledge of kannada is next to impossible.
Chatrapati shivaji maharaj whom every hindu adores, was born in gadag district in karnataka. His father had worked in bijapur, bangalore and there are enough historical proof to prove them.
This is all history, now the only thing that is left is accepting mahajan commision report and moving on.
Both KA and MH face similar problems, endless migration, hindi imposition, useless politicians, corruption are eating both state's progress. It is in the interest of both states to move on from here and work together to counter the similar problems what we face.
In spite of being part of Karnataka, marathi people are still in majority in Belgaon. Isn't that nice?
Look at Mumbai-Pune. In spite of being part of Maharashtra, marathi people are minority and are living in fear..migrants from UP-Bihar rule Mumbai-Pune. Mumbai was the city for which 106 martyrs died..and Pune was the capital of marathi empire. But now marathi people have LOST these two cities.
So I think marathi people in Belgaon should not try to come in Maharashtra, unless they want Bengaon to be all abt Chatt Pooja and Bhojpuri movies, like mumbai-pune are today.
Belgaum maharashtrachech hoil.kannadani jar tyanche nakhare suru thevle tar mumbai,maharashtrat tyana rahu dile janar nahi.tyanchi hotels futatil.haklun dile jail tyana
Very good article by 3M
In reply to ‘ A Kannadiga’ I will like to state :
What is your answer for different yardsticks taken by Mahajan commission in case of Belgaon & Kasargod? Why they did not take more scientific method of village based or Taluk based instead of district based analysis? The intention was clear – to benefit Karnataka.
For your revision of History : It is an undisputable fact that Shivaji was born on Shivneri Fort – a place in Junnar Taluk of Pune district and not in Karnataka. The ruling of Shahaji Raje as you mentioned is irrelevant here & that doesn’t prove any thing. Shahaji Raje had rulings even in Tanjavor in Tamilnadu and Shivaji’s brother Venkoji was looking after it. Latter on in Peshwas time marathi regime was extended till far north. Indore & Gwalior were always marathi strong holds, Konkani in Mangalore is much closer to Marathi & has no relation with Kanadi but Maharashtra never shown right on these places. As you said Marathi history can not be leant without Kanadi because Marathis have ruled much of the Karnataka. Maharashtra do not demand all that. Even from Satvahan regim marathi was noble state language for both Maharashtra & Karnataka but Maharashtra never insisted on that history part.
It has been a very painful stance by my brother Kannadigas to deny merger of Belgaum along with Nipani & Karwar against the wish of majority of the inhabitant in this area. This is against all civilized system and the democratic structure.
Kannadigas should think on greater perspective. Maharashtra is their best friend from ancient time. Culturally both are alike Only language is the difference between them. Both are progressive states and face equal threat from Hindification and migration influx. It will be prudent to seat across the table and resolve all border issues amicably.
I bet Marathi leaders will surprise you with more rewards than you expect.
your blog is nothing but verbose. your target audience wont have so much time to read all the junk. filter it & send out the clear message.
and by the way, try not to insult anyone. talk only FACTS & your stand on those facts NOT emotions. got it.
Good article but lacks in many sense, "the truth"
- belgaum is becoming like Kashmir where similar to pakistan,maharastra is asking for belgaum(kashmir) due to majority of people belongs to one particular community.
Karnataka unfortunitly playing role of silent "Indian Gov"
-Maharashtra’s so called history starts and ends at "Shivaji".
unlike karnataka whose history is full of brave dynasty Kadamba,rastrakuta (they were kannadiga not marathi) hoysala,chalukya,vijayanagar, aand so on.
- whatever it may be always Kannada-Marathi culture were good facilitator on another.
If this blogs feels MES is for marathi manoos it is very much unfortunate.
- Recent developments in Karnataka like emnerging of Karnataka Rakshana vedike is going to make MES strateries to use one particular emotions , difficult.
All marathis should understand that Kannadigas has given them home better than the one in your own city like Mumbia,Pune
Long live both great culture.
Sirigannadam Gelge (Jai Karnataka)
Jai Maharashtra.
-
Nice article! thanks
@ Bharat Dhanu,
Karnataka has always preferred status quo even in light of teh Mahajan commission's finding and recommendations, which means that BeLagavi would remain in KA and KA would not stake claim over Kasargod. There may be a few voices here and there but KA Govt. has never formally staked claim on Kasargod. I think that primarily is the difference in the stance of MAH and KA.
States cannot continue to redraw boundaries at different points in time. Imagine if due to uncontrolled migration tomorrow Mumbai has a small percentage of Marathi speakers and the Bhaiyyas want it to be annexed as a satellite of UP/Bihar or they want to settle for nothing short of a Union territory which is the new fashionable word.I'm sure there would be a bloodbath in Mumbai.
Also guys, when the Marathi Manoos sensibilities are hurt when someone performs Chath Pooja as a show of strenth, pls understand that the same would apply to people from KA when people want to organise Mahamelava as a show of strength in a city which as per the Indian Union belongs to KA.
Also pls verify the facts- when the Mahajan commission mentions BeLagavi as a cosmpolitan city, it means an evolution or an identity that is the best of both worlds. Like in BengaLuru you have so much of mix of Kannadiga/Tamil/Telugu cultures that there has been a lot of assimilation and people speak all 3 languages , watch movies seemlessly across these 3 languages and there are so many marriages happening across these communities.
Likewise I'm sure in Mumbai, the place is cosmpolitan not because of increased percentage of outsiders but because Marathi/Gujju have influenced each other to produce a set of people who are more modern in outlook.
Also, the Mahajan commission specifically insists that administratively since BeLagavi is surrounded from 3 sides by Kannadiga territory it should be retained in KA.
Pls also refer to the article in the link below to understand how the flip flopping of populations has happened. BeLagavi which was primarily under Kannadiga rule and which enjoyed a Kannadiga majority till 1881.
http://www.thehindu.com/2006/01/29/stories/2006012906730500.htm
The moot point here is that if we allow for migration patterns and disallow stable administrative set ups by redrawing boundaries, we can never ever arrive at the true shape of any state.
@Bharat Dhanu,
Pls check out...Satvahanas were of Telugu origin. Also go and read about the following Kannadiga dynasties and how they allowed multiple languages and religions to flourish under their rule in spite of their undisputed power. Also look out for the areas under their control :
Rashtrakutas
Chalukyas
Hoysalas
Kadambas
Vijayanagar Empire ( the last true Hindu empire).
A small search on google would suffice.
The Peshwas with British help on the other hand used their limited powers to increase Marathi penetration in erstwhile Kannadiga provinces.Satvahanas may have had a major influence on MAH but not on KA.
I have the greatest respect for Shivaji... a great Marathi ruler and protector of Hindu culture but the list of such dynasties and Rulers of Kannadiga origin is endless.
from "THE HINDU : 29.01.2006"
There is historical evidence to show that areas to which Maharashtra has staked claim have been populated by Kannadigas for centuries, and Marathis are recent settlers, according to former Lok Sabha member A.K. Kotrashetty.
Speaking to The Hindu in the light of references to the boundary dispute by speakers at the inauguration of the All-India Marathi Sahitya Sammelan on Friday, Mr. Kotrashetty quoted from historical documents and other records and observed that it was only during the Maratha rule that Marathis migrated and settled in Belgaum, Khanapur, Nippani, Karwar and adjoining areas.
Records show that areas to the south of the Krishna river were inhabited by Kannadigas, he said. Among these records are the Aithihasik Lekha Sangrahas (ALS); the Peshwa Daftars; documents prepared by historians from Maharashtra; Historical sketches of South India by Col. Mark Wilks, who was Resident of Mysore; the History of Marathas by Capt. Duff, who was Resident in the court of the Satara King; the report of Elphinston, then Governor of Bombay; and letters written by Thomas Munro.
Boundaries
It is not know whether boundaries were fixed at the time. The Bombay Government was bound to represent the case of Bombay-Karnataka people before the States Reorganisation Commission (SRC) as a Karnataka government was not in existence to put forth claims to areas inhabited by Kannadigas.
Presiding over a Marathi Sahitya Sammelan in Belgaum in 1929, Shivram M. Paranjape analysed the co-relation between linguistic frontiers and political dominance. He pointed out that along with expansion of kingdoms, linguistic frontiers were extended, the English language being the greatest example. "If we consider our own example of Marathi language, the truth of the above maxim becomes evident. Really speaking, Marathi is the language merely of Maharashtra. But today, it is being spoken in Tanjavur, Baroda, Gujarat, Nagpur, Indore, Gwalior, Sagar, and Jhansi." Paranjape said students of linguistics should know that when Dhanaji Jadhav and Santaji Ghopade led their army towards Chandi and Chandavar and imposed their sovereignty in Sandur, Gutti, Tanjore and various other places in the Madras Presidency, they spread their mother tongue.
Invasion
The Peshwa Dafter speaks of invasion of Shahpur and Belgaum. In Main Currents of Marathi History, G.S. Sardesai, noted historian from Maharashtra, refers to the Karnataka boundary as the territory to the south of Krishna. It gives a list of forts and fortresses which were in the possession of Peshwa Bajirao II in 1809-10.
When General Munro became Governor of Madras with Bombay-Karnataka under his administration, he recommended that Maratha influence on areas inhabited by Kannadigas be brought down. By 1822, annexation of the region to the Madras Presidency was complete. The area was under the presidency till 1830. In 1826, the Government of Bombay started fresh correspondence with the Madras Government to take back Bombay-Karnataka from the Madras Presidency.
Sir Thomas Munro objected to this and wrote to the Bombay Government.
Under the Bombay Regulation XXIX of 1827, Solapur, Bijapur and Athani were annexed to Poona district. In 1936, Belgaum district was formed. As per the 1881 Census, 64.39 per cent of the population was "Canarese" and 26.4 per cent Marathi.
Mr. Kotrashetty said historical records show that Belgaum and others areas have been dominated by Kannadigas for centuries.
kannaDiga
Mahajan Commission: from wikipedia
Maharashtra leader Senapati Bapat resorted on hunger strike demanding the government to form a commission which would address border dispute.At Maharashtra's insistence, the Government of India constituted the Mahajan Commission on October 25, 1966. V.P. Naik, Maharashtra's Chief Minister at that time, announced in public on November 9, 1967 that Maharashtra will adhere to Mahajan Commission's report, regardless of the outcome.[4] The commission was headed by the third Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India, Meher Chand Mahajan. The commission, upon review of Maharashtra's claims, recommended the exchange of several villages in Belgaum district between the two states, but rejected Maharashtra's claim on Belgaum city.[5]
The Mahajan commission received 2240 memoranda and interviewed 7572 people and submitted its report. Maharashtra had asked for 814 villages besides Belgaum. It was given 262 villages including Nippani, Khanapur and Nandgad. Mysore State had claimed 516 villages, of which Maharashtra admitted that 260 were Kannada-speaking ones. It was awarded 247 villages including claim to Solapur.[6]
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3M - Do you think your map is correct?
kannaDiga
Mahajan Commission: from wikipedia
Maharashtra leader Senapati Bapat resorted on hunger strike demanding the government to form a commission which would address border dispute.At Maharashtra's insistence, the Government of India constituted the Mahajan Commission on October 25, 1966. V.P. Naik, Maharashtra's Chief Minister at that time, announced in public on November 9, 1967 that Maharashtra will adhere to Mahajan Commission's report, regardless of the outcome.[4] The commission was headed by the third Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India, Meher Chand Mahajan. The commission, upon review of Maharashtra's claims, recommended the exchange of several villages in Belgaum district between the two states, but rejected Maharashtra's claim on Belgaum city.[5]
The Mahajan commission received 2240 memoranda and interviewed 7572 people and submitted its report. Maharashtra had asked for 814 villages besides Belgaum. It was given 262 villages including Nippani, Khanapur and Nandgad. Mysore State had claimed 516 villages, of which Maharashtra admitted that 260 were Kannada-speaking ones. It was awarded 247 villages including claim to Solapur.[6]
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3M - Do you think your map is correct?
kannaDiga
Why the Commission rejected Maharashtra’s claim on Belgaum (Excerpts from the report): Maharashtra’s claim for Belgaum is of recent origin. Though tabled in Parliament, Maharashtra MPs, especially from the treasury benches, did not vote against the amendment of Belgaum being part of their state. Belgaum is a cosmopolitan city. In 1920, when the AICC session was held in Belgaum, not a single leader from Maharashtra including N C Kelkar demanded that it be part of that state. Geographically, Kannada areas surround the city of Belgaum on three sides and by a smattering of villages belonging to Maharashtra on the fourth. Reorganisation will cause extreme hardship. Status quo should be maintained. From the records of rights of Belgaum city, it is seen that a majority of lands belong to Kannadigas. All the original records in the offices of the mamlatdar and collector are in Kannada. “On the appreciation of the whole material and assessing it objectively, I have reached the conclusion that I cannot recommend the inclusion of Belgaum city in the state of Maharashtra. ’’
kannaDIga
3M took a week long break @ Udaipur and hence could not respond to the barrage of comments from the rickety internet cafes… But would like to respond now! It is irrelevant to talk about which dynasty ruled when in which area and spoke/ patronized which language! Request all the readers not to get into “Marathi History” vs “Kannada History”… rather it is a common Indian history. Some of the comments on this post look like “my daddy strongest”!
3M’s argument is simple… Linguistic states as a concept is a creation of the 20th century. When the reorganization of the states happened in 1956, census should have been used as a yardstick with village or taluka as a unit. If that is the case then the red areas in the map should be handed over to Maharashtra and blue areas to Karnataka.
If MES has been able to successfully win elections in these areas for over half a century, it means there is a case for resolving the issue! Let me state again that in the last 75 years not a single Kannadiga has been able to become the Mayor of Belgaum… If the city is indeed Kannada majority, then why have all the mayors been Marathi?
@ Jesus… most of my posts are concise but this topic needed in-depth analysis… this is the longest post on this blog to date!
@ Kannadiga… The map is correct… Karwar, Supa, Haliyal, Belgaum, Khanapur, Nipani in Northwest Karnataka and Bhalki area in Bidar District have Marathi Majority… Part of Gadhinglaj Taluka, Area east of Ichalkaranji in Sangli district and area south of Akkalkot in Solapur district have Kannada majority. About Justice Mahajan… he was from Himachal Pradesh! It can be a possibility that he might have Maratha origins. 3M knows one Mahajan family from Hamirpur Guler in Himanchal who claim that they are originally from Maharashtra and settled there during the 3rd Battle of Panipat… and as for Shivaji being born in Gadag, I request you to refrain from 'rewriting' history!
Dear Bhargo,
Are you suggesting not to take about history. Then why are you talking about 50 year old history?
Just joking yaar...
coming to facts, Any city will attract migrants... similarly Belagavi during previous few centuries. Natives of belagavi is kannadigas, are you disputing this fact? If you agree to this, then you should agree to karnataka'a stance. If you don't agree, please show evidences of belagavi being the native of marathis. If you see the history, belagavi always belonged to kannadigas, who were out numbered by migrated marathis. This is due to the pashwas ruling. Peshwas were given these areas of karnataka by british for helping them defeating Tippu... Let us not be emotional in analysing facts. You can also refer to maharashtrian historians who have clearly mentioned about the natives of belagavi, roots of marathas..
kannaDiga
@ Bharath Dhanu
As to why there was a clear difference in the way Belgaavi and Kasargod were handled when it came to schools that were present in those places, here's the simplest explanation (actually quoted in essence from the Mahajan Commission Report 1967):
"The statistics about Marathi schools not making an MH favourable impact in Belagaavi is because of the strong history of Kannada schools having dominated (as opposed to Marathi schools) in that area since long long long ago! Such is not the case with Malayalam schools in Kasargod, where also, Kannada schools had been in majority since ages. Hence the apparent difference in the commission's report - which has failed to occur to MES - which claims to know everything about Marathi history before proceeding to its Ekikarana!!!"
This is basically the reason, and I am sure it is a very sensible explanation indeed. Clearly, schools alone were not the yardstick when it came to allocation of villages to a state, it was the history kept in perspective which was more important for the commission - and that has been consistent across both the inter-state issues.
Dhanu's mention of MH being Karnataka's best friend since ages is well taken, but not without a mention that all other states are Karnataka's equal friends as well. It is this friendship that all Indian states need to muster even while coming down strongly on protecting its borders, and ensuring the system does not encourage frequent re-drawing of state borders owing to uncontrolled migration, and consequent creation of linguistic minorities on both sides.
Marathi's living in Karnataka want to kick out MES from our land. There can be no shame bigger than this to MES check this link.
http://karnatique.blogspot.com/2009/01/get-hell-out-of-here-marathis-to-shiv.html
Many facts in this article have been tailored to adjust the needs of a prejudiced view.
First of all, Mahajan was appointed to solve the border issue by Indira Gandhi. Bapat's hunger strike made this happen. The commission consisted of 2 members from Karnataka and 2 from Maharashtra.
V.P. Nayak the then CM had agreed to agree the outcome of Mahajan's report regardless of the outcome.
But Maharashtra made a volte face looking at Mahajan's report. It denied to agree the outcome.
What was in the report:
247 villages including Jatta, Akkalakote, Sollapura would be a part of Karnataka while 260 villages including Nadagada, Nippani, Kanapura would be a part of Maharashtra.
Though Karnataka knows that it has to part with 260 villages, it thinks Mahajan's report as final, where as Maharashtra does not.
Its high time that both the states considered Mahajan's report as final and move on with the issues like Hindi imposition, migration, poverty eradication, education, infrastructure development and Industrilization.
@ Sudeep
Is it not wierd that a democratically elected party like MES is abused by you only bcoz your viewpoints does not match. But the Parishat which hardly has any base is appreciated for parroting 'politically correct' words!
@ Kannadiga
The oldest Marathi inscription is in Shravanbelgola (Karnataka). with your logic Maharashtra should "stake claim" on these areas. Please realise that Karnataka and Maharashtra have a common history.
@ Indian
Now that MES is white washed, stop pampering yourself ;)
@ Phantom
With the current situation MES will bounce back... then you will have to shut up!
Dear KA & MH friends,
Its very sad to see someone comparing our Belgaum with that of Kashmir. Belgaum is a place with lot of mixed culture and more over accessible to three Major Developed states of India. Please stop discussing about all these things and start thinking about making it more economically strong. Lot of IT deals are going to new start ups. Places like Mysore, Mangalore, Hubli, Pune, Nagpur are bagging deals. Why not Belgaum. No other states can even touch our Belgaum because of two strong community.
Remember one thing, our Belgaum very rich in its resources. Many AP contractors are buying land for mining purpose. Please save our Belgaum and its rich heritage.
Thanks
A true Loving Belgaumite
Adding to my last post......
We don't want Belgaumites going out of their home in search of Jobs to places like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, Pune, Mumbai.
Please all Belgaumites, its the time to bring back our migrated Belgaumites back to Belgaum. Belgaum is very well equipeed to seed Entrepreneurship. Please throw some light in these areas instead of talking more politics.
Thanks,
Vinay
Mi Maratha (SHIVAJI BHOSLE)
Belgaon (बेळगांव) Maharashtra chech nahi konachya bapa che.. I just want to ask some people who say belgaum is karnataka's. I just want to ask them, if Belgaum was karnataka's then its obvious that the area names in belgaum would have been Kannada. and Not Tilakwadi and hindwadi nanawadi, Savgaon kakti Hindalga, Gojge, Sulga, turmuri Etc, these are just a few examples of the Marathi names of the places in belgaum, i haven't mentioned the gallies they are countless. Now tell me if Belgaum was karnataka's then how come all places are Marathi.. This clearly tells that belgaon बेळगांव is a integral part of MAHARASHTRA. Noone can deny that.
I am a Mumbaikar where people speak different languages & do not fight over language (except Shiv Sena & MNS). It is surprising to see people fighting over language in an area where almost all people can speak both Marathi & Kannada. I have been to Belgaum often, have seen people very closely, there does not seem to be any enimity between the linguistic commumnities, except when politicians from Maharashtra go there or there is an election & the MES wants to win it badly.
Yes there is a Marathi speeking majority in Belgaum city & some villages around it, but I have not seen or heard anybody from Karwar fighting for merger with Maharashtra. Then why include Karwar? The majority people there are Konkani speaking with few Kannadigas & very few Marathi speakers [here too the people are bilingual].There has never been an agitation for merger with any state. With the same logic should Karwar not be merged with Goa instead of Maharashtra. In Maharashtra there are about 5 lakh Konkanis mostly in Mumbai only.
In Bangalore, Only 35% are Kannadigas. Pull Bangalore out of Karnataka. In Bobmay (Marathis call it Mumbai), only 40% are Marathas. So why should Bombay be teh capital of Maharashtra? In Delhi, 45% are from UP and Bihar, so let Delhi go to UP and Bihar. All Marathis and Kannadigas who are fighting over Belgaon are traitors for India as they are promoting partition of India. Political parties are fooling people and nothing else.
@anonymous, the city's name is officially Mumbai. Arrogant and ignorant people still call it Bombay. Also, Karnataka's capital is Bangluru and not Banglore anymore.
The anonymous person doesnt know the history of 'Samyoukt Maharashtra Chalval'. Thats why he's commenting like a man frustrated by inflation.
belgaum border dispute is a closed chapter...both states agreed to accept the verdict of justice meherchand mahajan.but some pro marathi groups are causing all the damage and destroying the peace in the region..both kannada and marathi have a rich culture and heritage.....belgaum will remain as same even if it is merged into maharashtra.....kannada is a major language in solapur which is a maharashtrian district....but karnataka is not claiming it on linguistic backgrounds and not even kasargod which is in kerala......stop fighting on linguistic backgrounds....we are all indians first,belgaum is part of india and then to karnataka...lets look upon the development sector first........jai hind...sirigannadam gelge(jai karnataka),jai maharashtra....
pls stop fighting dear friends.
i love belgaum.i was in belgaum for about 2 years.it is a most wonderful place i had ever seen.you can see real India only in belgaum.people from two different community live together with brotherhood.it is very difficult to see such thing elsewhere in India.
the karnataka got should try not to hurt the feelings of maharashtrians in belgaum.there are some incidence of injustice to marathi speaking in belgaum like that of election of mayor such things will harm the harmony of the city.similarly maharashtra got should also try not to interfere much.
no body in belgaum is kannadiga or marathi they are all belgaumkar(belgaumite)lets accept this .
be a indian and espect each culture.respect shivaji as well as rani chennama.
pls dont spoil the heven in border of three states.
jai INDIA.
the 3rd largest community in belgaum is of muslims and they always take the benefit of war between marathi and kannadiga. the only option now left is to turn the belgaum district into an union territory. official languages should be both marathi and kannada.
namma belagavi , namma karnataka......... if marathi people think that belagavi belongs to MH,then accordingly kashmir also belongs to pakistan with respect to MH people facts..... so you politicians dont create fight among kannadigas and marathi people....we as an indian dont want kashmir to give to pakistan....first concentrate on kashmir issue since its a national pride..belavi fight is just political drama to get votes.... and tarun bharath concentrate on bhatath issue not on belgavi issue as your news paper title is tarun bhatath not tarun belagavi...
jai hindustan/india and jai karnataka
Hi I am from karwar, If Karnataka follows Mahajan commission then in 1956 the commission reported that 80% people living in Karwar speak in konkani and Goa was liberated after 1956 i.e. 1961 so karwar was left with Karnataka. Now we have a konkani state Goa and according ti Mahajan commission state reorganization act karwar should be merged in Goa and i have lot of respect for karnataka. I am sure karnataka will help the merger of Karwar with Goa for development of both states and we have lot of respect for kannada i think similarly kannadigas also have respect for konkani. let us be patient and think of this merger.
I agree with Sachin Rane.. If everybody is talking about mergers than I totally agree that Karwar & adjoining areas should be merged with Goa. More than 80% speak konkani + almost everybody can speak both konkani & kannada. So either let karwar remain as it is or merge it with Goa, but do not talk about merging it with Maharashtra. It does not make sense as the culture,language & people are different from Maharashtra.
I agree with Sachin Rane.. If everybody is talking about mergers than I totally agree that Karwar & adjoining areas should be merged with Goa. More than 80% speak konkani + almost everybody can speak both konkani & kannada. So either let karwar remain as it is or merge it with Goa, but do not talk about merging it with Maharashtra. It does not make sense as the culture,language & people are different from Maharashtra.
I am surprised at the venom spewing 'Anonymous' person. He says that he is a kannadiga, for his kind information i have been to karnataka more than 300 times till now, i know more about your state than my own i.e Maharashtra. I know many kannadigas & none of them are as arrogant or foul worded as you seem to be. This is a forum is for discussion & not for showing ones inherent qualities. If one does not like a particular comment then please counter comment, don't boil your blood over it. I personnally feel that status quo should be maintained, what we were discussing was possibilities. I hope Mr Anonymous understands...god is kind..may peace prevail. Goodness, kindness & good words prevail over crass mentality and perverse nature.
every body is forgetting that even other community people like jains, catholic, protestants, Muslims ,Portuguese,etc. who influenced belgaum.it cannot insisted that only one type of people can live in it.many people in belgaum speak many languages like English , Hindi, Marathi, Kannada,konkani,and even a mixture of all these in one which may not be understood by all .if one cannot understand it they can ask for a translation ,but not create problem amongst peace loving people of belgaum. you know some thing many languages of the world are becoming extinct and some have also become extinct.
These maharastrian politicians and kannadigas rakshana vedika both are playing with our sentiments. First of all if we merge with maharashtra then they will spoil even belgaum like Vidarbha and Marathwada, due to which these region themselves want to split from Maharashtra. They spoiled Konkani culture of Konkan region of Maharastra, which became mere a dialect. Kokani came from earlier prakrits when Parashurama brought kokanis from Saraswati River region when it dried up. Infact both Marathi and Kannada originated from Konkani. Marathi originated when Konkani mixed with north dialects of prakrits(which came when Yadvas from north crossed the vindhyas and became Jadhavs and when Sisodia Rajputs descedants of Bhosaji came from North and became bhosale clan due to islamic conquest of entire North India) and kannada orginated when konkani mixed with southern dialects of Prakrits. If at all given a choice we will prefer to remain a Independent State of Belgaum or else merge with GOA. GOA made a right choice by remaining independant otherwise these Maharashtrains would have spoiled it like Vidarbha, Marathwada and Mumbai. They spoiled the language and culture of Kolis of Mumbai remember the kolis of Maharastra, Gujarat and Karnataka belong to one clan they used to even intermarry until these states got separated, now they totally became different from one another. First of all there is a difference between Marathi, Maratha and Maharashtrian. Any person speaking marathi in Maharashtra, North India and South India is called Marathi i.e. Maharastrian Marathi, Delhi Marathi, Gujarat Marathi, Tamil Nadu Marathi, Bihar Marathi etc.. Any person who is residing in Maharastra for long is a Maharashtrain just like how we say Indian Muslim, Bangadeshi Muslim etc.. in the same way Maharastrian Marathi, Maharastrian Gujjar, Maharastian Tamil, Maharastrian Bhojpuri etc...
Maratha Empire was a huge empire in which many local and regional people even from other states were included by Shivaji Maharaj as well as other Marathas due to which there are Marathi Marathas, Tamil Marathas, Chattigarhi Marathas, Jharkandi Marathas, Kannada Marathas, Konkani Marathas, Bihari Marathas etc..just like Punjabi Jats and Haryanvi Jats. These Tamil Marathas and Kannada Marathas claim Tamil and Kannada as their Mother tongue, Go check martimonial site they still marry only Tamil/Kannada Speaking Maratha Girl/Boy etc. Konkani Dailects of North Konkan like Thane, Ratnagiri etc.. has been lost and only few people practice in rural areas due to forceful usage of Marathi, now they are heading towards Belgaum which is neither fully Kannadiga nor fully Maharastra. Even Shivaji Maharaj proposed Sanskritization inorder to eradicate linguistic and regional barriers in this country to kick out Jehadis. If this kind of regionalism continues then tommorrow Kandeshi pride, Kokani(thane, ratnagiri..) pride, Vidarbha Pride, Marathwada pride will intensify and even they will fight for defending they regionalism. There are kannada speaking villages in which each and every single person is named after Sant Gyaneshwar, this means for people of ancient era there was no difference between Konkani, Marathi, Kannada, Tamil.. they were all considered as Prakrits dailects. Now, if these were altogether different language then how come Venkoji son of Shahji and Tukabai(from Maharastrian Mohite clan) went and ruled those people with whom he can't communicate, reason is that in those days difference between ancient Marathi and ancient Tamil was just like difference between current Marathi and current Malvani. Mere 10 years of seperation from you and your brother in America will create two different marathi dailect one Indian Marathi and another American Marathi then why can't 200 years of British rule develop more regional languages. Except Mumbai, chennai, Delhi, kolkatta these Britisher never allowed people to interact and to unite against them, due to which a person in one region became more and more separated then a person from the neighbouring region...........To stop this fight once and for all a new State of Belgaum to be created with Belgavi as the state language neither Marathi nor Kannada. This should be understood by Belgavi politician that instead of becomming slaves of Mahrastrian and Kannada politicians it is perferrable to be king of our own region. Anways even Maharastrian and Kannada polticians are treating Belgavi Polticians as their puppets and salves.
Jai Hind! Jai Belgaum!
We were united for the cause of liberating this region across Vindhya ranges, from islamic and european robbers and not to become slave for Maharastian politicians. We respect Shivaji Maharaj, Dharamveer Shambaji Mhaharaj and Balaji Bajirao Bhat (Bhajirao Peshav) they are heroes of entire Bharata. How come a Marathi Rani Laxmibai becomes a Queen of Bundelkand region of current UP? How come Maratha Vasundra Raje becomes a Chief Minister of Rajashtan? Does that means that people of these regions are not regional and more open minded or they are ignorant of this fact. Till today in Kumbh mela they organize PeshwaSahi the possession of Peshwas. By throwing stones at our own city/state we are stopping the growth of the regions and will effect foreign investments and jobs, due to security reason there were no foreign/outside investments in UP and Bihar and if this stone pelting and burning continues then investors will won't take their risk and will find some other states for investment, which in turn will effect economy of state and employment of locals. Just like what happens in Kashmir. If you think people are coming to our state then even we can go in great amount and conquer UP and Bihar, so that each and every single jobs in UP and Bihar is occupied by Marathis. But by hurting Biharis and UP you are sowing the seeds of future Bihar Navnirman Sena and UP Navnirman Sena.
Hello, I'm living in Yellur, Belgaum district, Maharashtra. Yes, maharashtra. Why? Because discustion going on here is quite incorrect. Why we are in Karnataka though we have no importance in this state? Sounds strange but true. I am unable to speek kannada. And also, most of the marathi people in uttar kannad area could not speak good kannad. As belgaum has been undergone both the influences of marathi & kannad, it is necessary to conserve culture. But kannad government is still killing marathi in this region. येथे मराठी भाषेला नाकारण्यात येत आहे. मग आम्ही मराठी भाषिकांनी काय करावं? याचं कोणीतरी उत्तर द्या.
-के. जोशी, येळ्ळूर, बेळगाव
Why can't we seperate from Karnataka and liberate kolapur from Mahrashtra and create a new state where we not kannadiga and not fully marathis can live happily. First of these marathi politicians and Kannadiga politicians and north indian politicians are enjoying the hard earn money and taxes of comman marathi manus, kannada man and north indian man.
They just make money and fool common people like a pakandi sadhus, christian priest and fakirs.
Why could not they use the money earned by Micheal jacksons show for the development of Marathi Manoos, instead they preferred to purchase kohninoor mill. They even forget poor marathi workers who lost their earning due these mill shutdown. These politicians did not started any employment opportunities like
Why can't maharastra/orrisa, madhyapradesh, chattisgarh, Jharkand manufacture TV, VCD players and other electronic goods like china.
Why can't UP/bihar and other north indian states manufactures cars, bikes and other mechanical goods.
Why can't south indians manufactures, processor computer chips and computers.
Why can't north eastern states manufacture mobile, pda etc..
So that we can defeat china. This will also create emploment oppertunities in all states. Those who are good in computers will head towards south, those who are good in mechnical will head towards north, those we are good in electronics will head toards , western, eastern and centeraal regions. Those who are good in mobile and pda manufacturing will head towards northeast.
Each and everysingle property of these marathi politicians should be distributed to comman marathi manoos because it belons to tax money of marathi manoos and each and every single property of south indian politicians should be distributed to comman south indians because it belongs to tax money of comman south indian. Each and every single property of north indian politicians should be distributed to north indians because it belongs to comman north indian manoos.
Today, we see many scams of raja etc.. but even Michael jackson's consort money which was supposed to go for the welfare of marathi manooos is also biggest scam because the value of 1 rupee at that time is 10 rupee of today this means that even micheal jackson's consort should also be included into scam.
If the property of marathi, south indian and north indian politicians are confiscated and distributed to the people of their respective region then these marathi, bihari and kannada politicians will all come together. Understand the fact that there are only two langauges language of policians and language of comman man.
there are only two caste. Caste of politician and caste of comman man.
They are fooling us.
Each and everysingle state structure should be remove and a only districts should be created. this will unite us comman public.
States strucutures are just feeding these regional politicians.
Also a rule should be passed that even thhose who own a political or social party should reveal their assests.
The money earned in micheal jackson's shows is been stored in madasgacr bank's by so called marathi lover politicians. Same applies to south indian politicians and north indian politicians. remember they roam in big cars. Their children wear costlier shows they enjoy and commann marathi, kannada and bihari manoos fight and cry.
First of all consider your self an Indian, then just like how other people come to Maharashtra in the same way a Marathi person being an India has a right to go, stay and work anywhere In India. Emphasize on your Indianess, this is what Marathas have done since centuries. They considered themselves as India and wanted to kick out islamic invaders outside of India till behind Himalayas.
Go and check the secret documents hidden in government library, you will find direct hardline pro hindutva quotes of Chattrapati Shivaji Maharaj, Chattrapati Shambaji Maharaj, Peshwa Bajirao.
What is peshwa bajrao full name Balaji Bajirao Bhatt this clearly states that there was mixture of Maharastrian and South Indian culture and North indian culture in Maratha Empire.
Don't trust these regionalist politicians all Marathi, Hindi, Kannada, tamil etc..
For e.g. That Gheelani if Kashmir always pressurizes Indian government saying that they want to separate and inturn he gets huge money from Indian government to keep is mouth shut on the other hand he makes a lot of money from Pakistan to keep this aggression active in the same way these regional politicians are fooling comman man, like they say that they kick out biharis etc.. on otherhand if these biharis give them ample of money then they keep shut, the same applies in Karnataka, politicians trouble innocent people and inretun when they extort money they keep quiet. They fill their own Banks (SWizz bank) and Marathi and Kannada person gets lolipop.
Remember one thing that these politicans are our servants, so treat them like servants don't run behind their cars like dogs.
Will hire a servant who is not working and only comes in the end of month to take salary. On the otherhand does your boss gives you salary if you don't go to work at all and only go in the end of month to collect salary. Then why you are filling in the banks of these politicians.
Remember one thing
who troubled Marathi people in Belgaum?
ans. Kannada rakshan vedike.
Who are they?
Politicians (directly or indirectly)
Who comes in the support of Marathi people of belgaum?
ans Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti(oppertunities polticians directly or indirectly)
Now belgaum if belgaum becomes an Union territory with Belgavi as the state language then it has legimate claim on the center for funds which can be used directly by belgaum people.
NOw if it stays with karnatka then it will not get directly the money.
Now if it merges to Maharastra then all the money will go to scams like Adarsh housing society or politicians will convert their house flooring from marble to granite.
Now it is upto belgaum to deside whether staying in Karntaka it want to remain as belgaum town or region OR merging with Maharastra and suffer like Vidarbha OR remaining independent of both Karntaka and Mahrastra like GOA.
Even if belgaum stays with Karnataka then it has all rights in the share of Karnataka income because they are active Tax payers in Karnataka. So it is the duty of Karnataka to look after them.
As per Indian constitution any Indian is free to stay anywhere in India and practice his/her culture.
So Marathis can stay in karnataka and are equal share holders along with Kannadigas in Karnataka. Also, Marathis are equal share holders in Gujarat.
In the same way Kannadiga in Kerala and Keralite are equaly share holders in Kerala. Also, Kannadigas are equal shareholders in Maharashtra.
In the same way a gujarati and Marathi are equal share holders in Maharashtra.
In the same way a Rajasthani and Gujarati are equal share holders in Gujarat.
So on Bihari, tamil nadu, bengal, orissa and north eastern states as well.
Also, remember the border regions are not purely marathi and not purely Kannada. Their language it itself a distinct language. How can one say that they are dialect of Marathi or Kannada. It can be possible that Marathi and Kannada derived from belgaum, kolhapur, sholapur etc..
Kannada rakshna vedike cannot force Kannada on others and Mahrashtra ekikarna samiti cannot force marathi on others.
Kick out these politicians and confiscate their property and distribute among yourself because all these comes from your tax money.
Remember the movie Hum in which the oppertunist police inspector(who like narad makes people to fight) and what he says that there is one Oppressor (villian) and one revolutionary (hero) and then third is the Oppertunist(POLITICIANS)
If Baba Amte, kiroloskar, anna hazare can develop their regions without coming into power then why new Pro Marathi party says that they will do work for maharashtra only if he comes into Power, otherwise they will thrown stone and break Maharashtra's public property made from money of Marathi manoos's tax.
What development work did they have done? They are converting Maharastra to Bihar because even in Bihar there was extortion, Kidnapping, throwing stones and spoiling the culture of Bihar which was once called Magadha a powerpul state was converted to Jungle because of politicians.
See what happend to the Jannat Kashmir it has been converted to a dangerous state by Kashmiri politicians. There is no employment they use guns instead of Stone. If you follow these politicians then will decay all resource of Maharashtra and will develop their own house with marbles and granite and preserve Maharastra's money thier own bank account in Swizz or Madasacgar.
Shivaji Maharaj never forced common people of any regions maharastra, south india and North India to bow to him. They bow to him out of respect.
Shivaji Maharaj was more respected for his discipline and words. Even for his enemies he never used badwords. First of all he never threw stones and broke property of his own house.
Suppose if your neighbor comes to your home and break your furniture then what will you do? will you go and break his furniture or burn your own house? These pro marathi politicians are burning their own state for their selfish needs.
All their properties should be disclosed and distributed to common marathi manoos.
Marathis file an RTI and get all information of the bank balance of Marathi politicians, mahrashtra ekikarn samiti
Kannadigas file an RTI and get all information of the bank balance of your politicians and Kannada rakshana vedike.
Hindi peole file an RTI and get all information of the bank balance of your politicians and Hindi rakshana manch
Regionalism what did it benefited tamil nadu and bengal,nothing their per captia income is not good because no business wants to setup office there because of the rigid regionalistic stand due to which less job oppertunties. do you want to convert Maharashtra and Karnatka to tamil nadu and bengal.
Who are these regionalist politicians in tamil Nadu? they are all tamil film actors to save their jobs their film industry they want to keep tamil nadu behind under regionalist ethos.
They talk about innocent tamils killed in Sri lanka but they are not concerned about the innocent tamil killed by LTTE along with Rajiv Gandhi in Tamil Nadu.
What did these Tamil politicians do for these Indian Tamilians.
ans they gave them lolipop.
Mac dear friend i am living on the border of maha and karnataka. i livein maharashtra but culturally kanadigga i.e. kannada speaking .i am a business ownner in gadhinglaj my 80% business is in nearest karnataka. my mother tounge is kannada but i cant read write kannada .i studied marathi as my language. i have a friend from belgaum he is maratha and working as a lecturer in gadhinglaj.
he can read write kannada but cannot speak kanada properly. he uses his marathi and doing job in maharashtra. i am using my kannada and doing business in karnataka .. inspite of dispute we dont have any problem while working in maha. an karna. if karnataka government gives the documents in marathi the people in disputed region may have no problem to live in karnataka. the k gov. has to give them freedom to enjoy there culture. then they have no problemm. so plz we r indians first then mahrashtriyan and karnatakiyan
so frdz jai hind jai maharashtra jai karnatak and jai humanity....!
Hey all first think about country try to be an indian love all language. Please don't wast your time and knowledge on this useless issues we belgaum people don't want to go any were we all happy here. history is past which has nothing to do with our present and future
Mi pan marathi ahe. pan tyachi pahile mi karnatakacha ahe.amhala kaay pharak padat nahi. amhi bharat madhe aahe. phakta eudi marathi manus aahe tyanchatun sampurn marathichi naav kharab karit aahe. amhi ase ka wagatat?
Karnataka ahmala ashray dele. tyachi viruddh jaana droha aahe. Sangali,miraj,jatt,sollapur hikada phaar kannada aahe.Zaar tyani maharashtra pahije mahnoon basla tar kasa watel? Jithe amhi rahiro shwasa gheto tyacha virudda bolana kuthla changli goshta aahe.
Shantapane amhi rahuya.
nimmour marathi makkalrya muchkond irakk barangilla?? kaditavu? enare naatak madidri boot kaal le vaditev.nachike barangilla nimaga? thu thu ;;;;;
same 2 u kannadiga
Save Your Mumbai and pune from outsiders first. Maintain law and order in your state.
Save your state from under world.
Give food and shelter to the farmers in vidarbha region.
Think even if we gave belgaum to maharashtra, are you able to make it a developed district. No way its possible by you.
But most of the things we achieved it.
For your kind information Marati is originated and mostly influenced by kannada(reference wikipedia).
Most of the historical things related to marati is in karnataka and is still preserved by karnataka govt sincerely.
There is seperate departments for development of konkani and tulu here. We have watered them for their life.
we care for development, all karnataka people(not only kannadigas) want peace and prosperous life. We never fighted with any other states.
Please don't come at the time of elections and bark here.
I agree with Arun Kumar on preservation of languages other than Kannada [Konkani , Tulu & even Marathi is respected in most parts of Karnataka]. The language issue is purely political in nature. It does not have any other basis nor love of marathi people. The border area people should just ignore the politicians who come during election time to stir up trouble. Live & let live, after all we are sons & daughters of Mother India.
Nilesh palekar is right here. It is purely political and not the love for marathi people.
Even I agree that all languages to be preserved, and need to respect their sentiments as all of them are unique.
But it doesn't mean that keep expanding a particular state dominating others.
We have to be proud that India is a land of "unity in diversity"
Hello friend really very nice article..
I would like to ask a question to you Marathi people. As you all know Marathi's population in Mumbai is very lesser than other state's population in Mumbai in this scenario can you give Y(OUR) Mumbai to the other(UP/BIHAR) state those who are majority in Mumbai???
Can u give???
Jai Karnataka and Jai Maharashtra.. We are all ONE don't try to bifurcate the INDIA on the linguistic basis..
"Good Article" I would like to ask all people who are asking about population in Mumbai whether all these biharis are native son of soil? Absolutely not we are giving them home and they have immigrated to earn money so question of giving it to Bihar never comes. in fact senseless and Idiotic argument like every Kannadiga. On other side Belgaav has marathi majority as all are son of soil so why it is in Karnataka? Some peoples are saying about history of Maharashtra starts and ends with Shivaji Maharaj and kanadigas have many read history one more time guys. YAdav, Jadhav, Bhosale are all maratha empires Kadamb is a goan where marathi is second language and forget all marathas are the only protectors of Hinduism none of kannadiga has fought for Hinduism and even for independence. All you guys can do is communal riots and cast-ism. U call urself followers of Basava and u forgotten his mission itself so shut ur moth and keep quite.
The author has biased decision on the matter.Poona and Bombay have highest speaking Kannadigas. Better hand over poona,bombay,sholapur,akkalakote,sangli,miraj to Karnataka.Shivsene and MES have always had terrorism attitude creating scene in Belagavi. In true sense Nagpur,nasik were part of MP.Still there is huge hindi and chattisgarhi speaking people.Nagpur and Nasik should be given to MP.
map shown in this page shows "Belgaon" name as "Belgavi".. this is shame..
Creation of Maharashtra itself a joke where solapur,akkalkot,sangli,kolhapur,puneand even mumbai where kannadigas are the majority so it should be given back to karnataka, and there are people who dont want to live with you guys ie vidharba region and they are demanding for a seperate state so i really dont understood what is left over
Hi to all. above mentioned article is devoid of meaning........ I am a Konkani guy from Karwar (North Kanara). I wonder how can marathi people claim Konkani Karwar??????? karwar was and is Konkani although Konkanis understand Marathi to some extent. my Karwari friends whose surname is Marsthi one like Salunke doesn't know Marathi because their ancestors gave Marathi for Konkani. Konkanis are happy in Karnataka and will fight tooth and nail against any move to merge Karwar or any other Konkani areas with Maharashtra.
Karwar people always supported to Belgaon pepple to merge with Majarashtra state bec we are konkani and only respect to Shivaji Maharaj and konlani culture tat inspired from Shivaji and we all learnt from marathi highschool..Jay Bhavani Jay Shivaji...A konkani guy from Karwar
Karwar never part of Goa because people frm Karwar are Maratha by cast so it shoul be included in Maharashtra
Karwari's cannot claim to be a part of Maharashtra because they have no link to the state apart from the marathas who fought with Shivaji maharaj [just like there are marathas in Baroda, Gwalior, Indore even Tamil nadu),but finally settled in karwar. The people of Karwar are majorly Konkani speaking with few Kannadigas & Marathi speakers. These speakers speak Marathi only because they travel to Maharashtra or some family members are married in Marathi homes there. In fact, even government offices here are full of Konkani speaking or knowing people & not Marathi speakers. Initially in 60's there used to be Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti here [ just like it is in Belgaum}, but they had to close shop because their leaders began to espouse that Konkani is a dialect of Marathi & so on. This led to the total closure of these Marathi propagandist politicians. So let us karwari Konkani's be in peace wherever we are. Most importantly, everybody please remember that Konkani, Kannadiga & Marathi speakers have lived & are living in harmony, so please do not destroy the peace.
Marathis were kannadigas once.. i dont know why they have become marathis now(are they forced..converted?)..
kolhapur mahalakshmi was built by chalukyas, pandharpur was built by hoysalas, ellora was built by rashtrakutas.. all are kannada dynasties..If you look at the inscription in maharashtra before 12th century they are mostly kannada and none are marathi..
I dont understand where did this marathi came in between
Kannada kings have sown the roots of hinduism in many parts of india.. If they would have not done that then shivaji would have not come to protect hinduism.. I think conversion is a big problem in india whether its religion or language based.. Marathis were once kannadigas and they have been converted..
If you ask them who built kolhapur mahalakshmi, pandarpur, ellora they will say either shivaji or some sahu maharaj.. I dont understand how some these 17-18 th century kings built 1000 years old temples..
Marathis neither read history nor the once who read will accept it..
This is sheer fanatism
Marathi Manus has to give concentration in maharashtra only, but not in other states, what implementation done till in Nagpur which was in MP. Kahi kaam dhandha nahi marathi manusala
when will you declare whether belgaum is the city of maharastra or not , we are waiting humbly for the dicision of court
Can anybody give me report of Mahajan
Belgaon karnatak madhe asayala kahi harkat nahi, Pan karnatak gov. forcefully Marathi shala bandh karun & Marathi manasavar Kannad chi sakti Karat ahe. Ani he fakt tithe rahnarya manasalach khup kalate, Belgaun Maharashtramadhe pahije ki Karnatakamadhe. Jar tyanchi Maharashtramadhe yayachi Iccha asel tar kay harkat ahe. Karnatak sarkar muddamhun apali Hukumshahi chalavat ahe. Hi kasali Lokshahi?
Tu mahrashtra la jaa. Belagavi Karnataka madhech rahil.
Cant believe marathi people are so dumb. Soon they'll ask for a separate country. Idiots.
Satvahana Dynasty (Telugu empire-230BC) when Raos from karnataka & Reddy from Andhra ruled maharashtra
Ganga dynasty (Kananda Empire-350 TO 1000AD) at that time only Vidharba was there and rest was Forest (Jungele)
Kadamba dynasty (Kannada Empire 345 -525CE) when Nayakas & Gowdas from karnataka moved Goa and married gals from goa
Kalachuri dynasty (Kannada Empire 10-12 Century). All had their langages as kananda & Sanskrit
Chalukya dynasty (Kannada Empire543 -566) : Desai & Pujara surnames moved from North karnataka into Maharhtra & Gujarat ( Hindi & kananada mixture became Marathi language)
Rashtrakuta dynasty (Kannada Empire 753 TO 982) ruled from Karnataka to kannauj in Madhyapradesh & this was the time which NORTH KANNADA people like VERMA & DESAI & many other surnames moved into MAHARASHTRA & MADHYAPRADESH, GUJARAT which was not into existence at that time having same tradition & same clothing.This people helped shivaji during his rule in 18th Century.
Hoshyalya empire ( 1026 to 1343)
Vijayanagra Empire( Kannada Empire & Tulu Empire 1336-1646) ruled around 450 years all south India include Maharashtra & Orissa. Shettys & Nayakas from Karnataka (Nadavaru community) & even Valmiki community who ruled during Vijayanagara empire married Orissa People & many married Saraswat Brahmins from Goa. Some of kings married Jain people & becam jains. Nayaks still esists in Orissa who speak Oriya language. Vijayanagara kingdom was the only kingdom who gave a fight to mughal emperor for around 450 years even Martha empire didn’t had the power to do so as shivaji did chapamar yudh like Gurila warfare and called pahadi chor by Mughal Khan. PANDYA DYNASTY SURNAME OF SOUTH STILL EXIST IN GUJARAT
After 18th century a soldier from vijayanagara kingdom after fall of Vijayanagara kingdom started maratha empire against mughal invaders. He sent shivaji to Bangalore to learn war tactics while he was small. Patil which means landlord & not a surnames even north Karnataka kannada gowda people started using it. Some Gowdas use only patil as last name you don’t confuse it wih that they are marathis they are kannadigas You can see gowdapatil surnames used everywhere. Its because of rashtrakuta dynasty that ruled till kanauj maharashtra came into existence otherwise there were kannada people staying there and because of kannada people getting mixed into hindi devnagiri script marathi language came into existence. VERMA was a royal surname from Karanataka which moved into Northern states & even THAILAND & CAMBODIA from Karanataka during Rashtarkuta dynasty period. If any of the Karnatak kingdom would have supported kannada language instead of Hinduism then today there maharashtra would have not been in history. Say thanks to kananda people who are ancestors to Marathi people. Just goto Wikipedia and know about this Ancient history of Kannada Empires. Even Ajanata Ellora of Maharashtra is made by Kananda Empire ( Sex symbol)
I want to add few words which are very affectionately used in Marathi
1) ANNA - Which is a respectful word in Kannada meaning Elder brother
2) TAAYI - Means Mother in kannada but same is used as Sunandatayi, Banutayi etc,
3) APPA : Means Father in kannada
4) MAMA, MAMI, etc.,
Da Ra Bendre a great scholar in Kannada brought Nation's highest Award for Kannada Sahitya the Jnanapeetha award. His mother tongue was Marathi
My School Teacher was Shri Ganapoole again a Marathi Mother tongue person, who was teaching Kannada in my primary & was meldiouly singing the Kannada Song " UDAYA VAAGALI NAMMA CHELUVA KANNADA NADY" meaning, Let The Beautiful United Kannada state arise"
Pt Bhimsen Joshi a kannadiga from Gadag, Revolutioned singing Marathi abhangs & Kannada Dasara Padaa which are still murmuring in the ears of both states people.
Saint Purandara Daasaru who was born in Purandharagadha near Pune had wrote 4.75 Lakhs of Pure kannada Poems which are known as Purandaroopanishad.
Santa Jnaneshwar in one of his Abhang Praise Lord Vithal " Kanhadahoo Vithalu Karnatakoo ..." Meaning Lord Vithal you are a Kanhadi Manoos & have come from Karnataka.
The Name Belgaon is derived like this - Belakina Gaon : Belaku a Kannada Word meaning Light & Gaon Is Village. Some people call it as belakina Gavi- Both Kannada words meaning "Light Cave" Pl correct me if i am wrong.
in Karnataka All Lingustic Minority Languages are honoured by setting seperate Sahitya akadamy
1) Konkani ( Spoken in costal part of Karnataka
2) Tulu ( Spoken in Udupi, Mangaluru,Dharmasthala, puttur etc.,)
3) Kodava ( Spoken in Kodagu)
4) Byari ( Spoken in some Parts of North Canara)
5) Urdu
Myself many times envy the border people who by default speek four languages by the time they graduate.
1) Mother tongue
2) State official Language
3) Hindi which mostly a link Language in our country.
4) English
So in a nut cell we should always respect each other & exchange culture, Literature,Trade, Commerce, brotherhood & Live in harmony.
Bharat Mata Ki Jai
Bharat Mata ki Tanujate both Karnataka & Maharashtra Ki Jai
My friend u are mixing everything becos jinke hotels hai woh log bilkul kannada nahi hai they are tulu people ok so don't talk about hotels futtil don't become vichaarandha or say vichaaranni aandhhalla
After reading 3M article and googling little bit I think what 3M is stating is relevant.
This is the difference between kannada and marathi people.
Maharashtra gov does not order police to beat oudiders in pune and mumbai but in belgav kar gov orders police goons to beat marathi.Such a shame.
My friend it seems that ur gk is too less .u can do phd on Maharashtra hist.As per kanndada bravery is concern let us not to talk. by the way what is the kannda population in indian army.u know it take chest and courage to take enemy bullet .
Dear friend,
Let us understand the meaning of human right and democratic values.
Let us accept the fact that kannda gov and ppl does not know human right
and thereby looses the moral right to retain marathi populace under karnataka.
Just pray to god that Kannada ppl does not get similar treatment in Maharashtra.
you may not have time but others do have.And pls read it thoroughly , check the fact then reply without being biased.
what u have said is half history. plz dont misguide people by showing one side of coin.I agree to the fact that the marathi speaking population is huge in belgaum but minor in belgaum district. It all stated way back during tipu sultan's period where he was fighting for kannadigas and for karnataka state @that time with help of peshwas britishers defeated tipu sultan and britishers in return gifted north karnataka part to peshwas calling it as asouth bombay. During this period migration of many marathi families was observed before that the part was kannada speaking, even shivaji maharaj used to speak kannada. Great rani chennamma used to treat him as his elder brother who was born in kakati village of belgaum district in kannada speaking family. Another which u have on ur site the map of the marathi and kannada speaking is totally wrong bcoz i come from hukkeri taluk village yamkanmardi where fully kannada and only kannda is spoken which is shown in marathi speaking area is totally wrong and false and also sollapura,akkalkot,karwar..etc are kannada speaking and wat i observed in one the post that u were talking that the people living in karnataka places like karwar, nippani,..etc are marthas so v want to merge with maharashtra. Wat logic is this? only bcoz caste is martha so they are maharashtrian or wat? wat nonsense yaar? tell one thing my surname is patil which is my caste? m i martha, or lingayat, wani, jain? i mean how foolish is it? come on yaar wat the hell is going on?
i only want to say is mahajan report is correct one and maharashtra should accept it and one more thing to all kannadigas is all annathammas b relaxed belgaum is going no where guys belgaum was, is and will b of karnataka. Belagaviya kannadigara aasti
In Bangalore, Mumbai, Pune all our Marathi and Kanada friends are staing together with happyly. but in Belgaum this is all politics only, it is just leaders are miss guiding and creating fights between us
let there be plebisite(voting) on This issue..
But StriCTly spaeking TIME HAS COME ..
FOR A SEPARTE STATE FOR NORTH KARNATAKA & SOUTH WEST MAHARASHTRA HALF OF SANGLI DISTRICT HALF KOLHAPUR DIST FULL BELGAUM DIST.. TILL BIDAR..BAGAKKOT LATUR SOLAPUR/
ACTUALLY SPEAKING WHOLE bORDER DISPUTED AREA SHOULD BE MERGED & SEPARATE NEW STATE LIKE TELANGANA & HYDERABAD SHOULD BE CREATED//
OR FORGET THIS ISSUE.
ELSE,fOCUS MUST BE ON REAL TIME SOLUTIONS FOR PROBLEMS FACED BY GENERAL POPULATION IN DAY TO DAY ADMINISTARTIONS...W WITH WHATEVER PARTITIONED POSITION..
aGAR ITNA HI DUM HAI..gET BACK pARTITIONED AREAS OF PAKISTAN & BANLADESH...:)
wHY WASTE TIME ENERGY ON FIGHTING ON SUCH PETTY ISSUES..let THERE BE ONE INDIA!
hi friends
why all of you giving such comments..do you the know the real fact?
First thing all of you take in mind that, we all are Indians.only because of some people( Ex.some dirty politicians, corporators etc)for their power, survival,their dirty and sadist mind crating/arrising such things.and we people without thinking & earning any good result fighting with eachother.
I requesting all the youth to fight against such bad things & work to creat good relations everywhere in India in-spite of bad things.
Tumche marati sarkar pan maharashtracha border area madhil kannada schools band karat ahe. Ani tumhi loka tar asa boltat ki belagavi madhe fakta marati loka ahe. Belagavi madhe kannada Ani konkani loka pan aahe jyanna karnatakatach rhaicha ahe. Ani belagavi District madhi kannada lokanchi majority ahe. Mag kasa kay belagavi maharastrala denar.
Talking out of your ass much? Shivaji was born on Shivneri Fort in Maharashtra. Kannad taluka is in Aurangabad district which is far from any Karnataka influence, if anything it has more Telangana influence since it was part of Nizam state.
The map is quite misleading .
Actually ,Belgium city is surrounded by Kannada villages on three sides ,how can the city surrounding becomes marathi .
The marathi claim on Karwar and Supa taluks is not valid as it is a Konkani majority regions . Supa taluk has good number of Kannada people . Karwar is predominantly Konkani with Kannada being actual minority . Marathi presence in entire Karwar taluk is so insignificant .
Now cooking to Chikkodi ,This taluk is overwhelmingly Kannada majority with ,Marathi presence in border villages and nippani town . But this map wrongly shows chikkodi as Marathi taluk ,which is wrong .
Even Marathi presence in Bidar too is overrepresented . Marathis actually form 18%of Bidar district ,but this map consumes almost half of land which actually is not true .
The Kannada representation in Maharashtra is way more wrong .
1. Maharashtra census of Kannada people is not a reliable source .
A large chunk of southeast solapur taluk is Kannada speaking .
What about west half of jatt taluk?.
Also ,Just read correct history to know how marathi imperialism lead to displacement of large number of Linguistic groups displaced from native land (Thanks to peshwas ,and their encouragement of upper caste Marathis to snatch land from poor people ).
Marathi , which was a mere language of Pune, Nashik ,North satara ,North Solapur ,Marathwada districts(excluding latur dist,and parts of nanded dist.) ,western Vidharbha districts become a significant language in Nagpur ( land of Gondis ) , Konkan belt (Konkani land),Belgav ,Kollapura/Karavira (as all inscriptions mentions ) (Kannada land ).
Also their presence expanded even to Hubli,Indore,Baroda ,Tanjavoor .
If not for Marathi imperialism what made this language to expand leaps and bounds in a such a short time with the only true marathi empire.
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